Comments on: Why I Am A Plastic Bag Optimist

By: Tzvi Kilov

Tzvi Kilov — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:15:23 +0000

In reply to SF.

I just think it’s an illogical way of thinking about it. How in the world do I justify my reactions to the situation (out of many possible reactions) based on the idea that I suddenly know of the situation?

Imagine how this would have worked out in other circumstances ,if not for the Rebbe’s guidance. For example, one time everyone “encountered” that news that there was the Six Day War in Israel. And people felt powerless, that they wished they could *do* something. By our own logic, the thing we could do would be protesting somewhere, or joining a military, or making some kind of demonstration. But of course, that’s because we’re us, and not Rebbes, and to simply take the fact that what I’m seeing now is FROM GOD does not tell me what I ought to do about it (The Besh”T after all only said to LEARN something from it — not DO anything about it). And when the Rebbe told us what to do, it was to do Mitzvos. The most “global” thing about it was to wrap someone else in teffilin as well, not just ourselves.

Moral I take for myself from the story: Don’t be a chossid shoteh and decide what the hashgacha protis means. It’s not always so simple, and it leads us to do things based on our own understanding that we SAY are in the name of Torah. This is a terrible mistake, and is one of the reasons why a Rebbe exists…

By: SF

SF — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 18:22:56 +0000

“I am certain that our interpretation of whatever the crisis of the moment is as our responsibility now is more an effect of news media, wishful thinking, and fashion than any reasoned attempt to serve G-d…” Yeah, you’re probably right. I am curious to know what you mean by “a perversion of hasgacha pratis” though. Are you saying that because hardly anybody lives that way – or because of something rooted in the meaning of HP itself? It would seem that this is how the Rebbe always encouraged us to live – to understand that everything that happens is significant in a deeply personal as well as global way. What would you say HP means?

By: Tzvi Kilov

Tzvi Kilov — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 13:10:19 +0000

In reply to SF.

I suppose it comes down to whether you consider everything you happen to hear about your G-dly responsibility. Which is a perversion not of bitachon, but hashgacha pratis 🙂 I’m not sure anyone actually lives that way, and I am certain that our interpretation of whatever the crisis of the moment is as our responsibility now is more an effect of news media, wishful thinking, and fashion than any reasoned attempt to serve G-d…but once again, there could be a reason it seems that way to me and not to others. Perhaps that is someone’s mission. I just think saying it’s everyone’s mission is ridiculous.

By: SF

SF — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 07:18:22 +0000

I don’t know… I agree with your insight that the fear and sense of urgency stem largely from the belief that we are the sole maintainers of a G-dless universe – but I’m not sure that the fallacy of this belief frees us of the responsibility to protect our environment, especially given our more global knowledge now in contrast to previous eras. This second kind of “G-d wouldn’t allow it” faith turns out seeming pretty similar to its more childlike brother – instead of relying on supernatural intervention, it relies on G-d’s foresight and preemption. This is certainly a valid point to consider – but as you yourself said, there have been many calamities in history brought about by man. True, those were intentional, and this would be circumstantial – but only initially. Once we recognize the power we have we are responsible. While considering this insight definitely checks our fear by helping us to realize that it originates in a view of reality as self-generated, it seems concluding that our actions are essentially not significant in the global context is perhaps only a more reasoned way to shrug off responsibility. How is this not the classic corruption of the concept of bitachon?

By: Tzvi Kilov

Tzvi Kilov — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 01:24:19 +0000

In reply to SF.

Quite possibly. I am not generally opposed to decreasing our environmental impact by the way, I am just here trying to see it in its right context, and its right context is certainly not in a state of panic or the like.
I would put it this way: Man can of course take his self-interest and self-centeredness too far, but these are fundamental and inalienable parts of the creation, parts of G-d’s intention that fit in with mankind’s role as the users of the earths’ resources. It is thus no more likely that those tendencies will destroy the world than a giant meteor or a localized black hole or whatever. These are modern, nihilistic fears, based around the idea that there is no system of the world.

None of which precludes environmentalism per se or the desire to improve the ecology of our environment or whatever! As you say, those recognitions are also part of the creation…

By: SF

SF — Fri, 12 Feb 2016 18:48:10 +0000

“It is saying somehow that using the earth is not man’s role, that technological progress and the utilization of resources is outside of G-d’s plan and against his will.”
To add to this: I think perhaps this stems from the classic philosophy (from the Greeks through to modern Western society) that man is but one of the gazillions of species occupying the universe, and so has no greater right to its use than does any other creature. This, to me, seems to be at the core of the not only the urgency to preserve our habitat which seems to be breaking down under the strain of our weight, but also the pervasive sense of nihilism and the “YOLO” hedonism it gives rise to. Recognizing that G-d created man in His image and above the rest of creation is what allows us to understand and come to terms with our own power and our role in the universe… like you said, if we would only talk about this more often.

Question, though:
The moment one becomes aware of his own thoughtlessness is the moment his actions cease to be thoughtless.
Don’t you think it’s a valid argument that perhaps our G-d-given self-reflection and the knowledge of our global effects are put in place to help us actualize the choice we have to build or, indeed, destroy?